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What was up with no fire spinning or propane effects? Why was there no mention of this before hand?
I heard rumors that there was concern over starting a brush fire on the hills surrounding the event and that someone else was threatened with a $200 ticket, but that was about it.
I did witness someone breath fire one time Saturday night. A ranger then ran up and said something to said fire breather and that was the end of that.
I heard rumors that there was concern over starting a brush fire on the hills surrounding the event and that someone else was threatened with a $200 ticket, but that was about it.
I did witness someone breath fire one time Saturday night. A ranger then ran up and said something to said fire breather and that was the end of that.
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 1:00 PMI was told that the permits for fire performance were pulled last minute. I was pretty bummed about it myself.
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 1:08 PMI heard the permits were submitted late, and the FD were just being officious!
This could be a rumor!!!
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 3:47 PMMy belief is that it was just politics and had nothing to do with fire/fire safety. This is a continuation of someone in the BLM making life hard for us. The reason you did not hear about it before hand is because it was last minute.
The local BLM guys were nice enough to allow us rangers to deal with it so people did not have to get tickets. I talked to two people who were spinning and they were very understanding. I really want to thank everyone for cooperating so we can have a clean bill of health and continue next year.
This was my first Dark Skies and in spite of the fire regulations I had an amazing time. Thanks to all that made that happen.
--Ranger Backbone
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 4:01 PMThe reason for no fire was because we were not given enough information to make sure everything was done in time. It was not the fault of the BLM, the decision was from Clark County Fire. For the event we were under their rules. From what I have heard Clark County is one of the toughest to get permission to do fire effects in. Now that we know that for future events that the rules may come down from Clark County and not the BLM we can be prepared to do everything we need to.
From my understanding we will be trying for a blanket permit, otherwise be prepared to come out early and show your routine before the event.
It sucked that there was no spinning. I was very bummed as it was going to be my first event where I got to spin, I'm gonna make sure we get to do it next time. -
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 6:31 PMbackbone is correct.
it makes no sense at all that we would be allowed to set off dozens of 6" and 8" mortars, but a few people spinning lamp oil on a string could somehow constitute a danger to the surrounding brush land.
but that was the call that was made. cam and brian tried and tried and tried again to find some way to allow the fire artists to spin, but it finally reached the point where they would have been just pissing the individuals who made that call off to keep at it.
they both worked about as hard as i have ever seen event organizers work. i spent 'maybe' three 'non sleeping' hours of the whole event not working or on call and on the radio, and they rocked it far harder than i did :)
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Re: No Fire
Tue, May 22, 2007 - 11:03 AMIt seemed like there was a lot of political stuff surrounding the permits and coordination of this event with local authorities, that's unfortunate.
Maybe it's time for a re-skinning of the event, to get a fresh start on the whole process?
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Re: No Fire
Tue, May 22, 2007 - 11:05 PMTime to move north. There's gotta be another lakebed somewhere a bit north of Vegas that we could homestead for the weekend. Get away from Clark County Fire and BLM. Anyone have some private land, lol... Fundraiser event to buy our own playa someplace perhaps? -
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Re: No Fire
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 8:12 PMThere is a playa lakebed called Delamar Lake, North of Vegas.
See: maps.google.com/maps
Or: 37°18'56"N 114°52'53"W if you prefer long/lat co-ordinates (eg Google Earth). -
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Unsu...
Re: No Fire
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 10:37 PMRangers are good for telling people that you can get a hefty fine for breathing fire without a permit. Bows and thank you.
North sounds good. I have heard rumor that the northern lands have welcomed this event. is this true? -
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Re: No Fire
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 10:39 PMLincoln County BLM did in fact invite us to play on Delmar Lake if I recall correctly. -
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Re: No Fire
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 10:53 PM
I've spoken with a couple a folks about Delmar, and in my opinion it really does sound like the promise land. I have no problem traveling further to get there if it means smoother sailing. Roach lake is cool too though, and I know that its hard to let go of something you fought so hard for.
What say you Cameron our fearless organizer? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: No Fire
Sat, May 26, 2007 - 11:14 PMGreetings you wonderful freaks! Just getting to all of the lists from this awesome event and the site cleanup. I have not stopped since last Sunday. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! We are again deeply humbled by this communities outpouring of time, energy, and ART.
WOW.
Here's what's happened and what is happening.
Fire: The chief at CCFD decided to pull the plug at the last minute/11th hour and it screwed us and you out of fire performance for the weekend. They dont understand us and they are wary of us and we have some work to do on a local level. We are VERY sorry to the entire fire community for this. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. We believe that this is residual fallout from 'The War' with BLM that has now ended, but, that not all parties got the word that the armistice has been signed. Rest assured, that we WILL correct this for the '08 event. it is our second top priority actually after finding a new front gate manager to replace our wonderful Cindy who is in England.
Delamar Dry Lake: Yes, there is another playa up in Lincoln county and inside the Ely district offices of the BLM. AND there is no Lincoln County Fire Department to deal with so it looks like a great spot. I've personally been out on it and it truly is wonderful. Now here's the problems with this site. 1. It adds 3 hours to the So Cal peeps drive time (100 miles north of LV). 2. It is VERY remote and there are NO services of any kind for many miles in any direction. 3. We as an org and as a community are not IMHO ready for this site, yet. We need to work out communications for medical and emergency's. We need to get ice, power, fuel, and water delivered reliably to the site in bulk. And finally, we need more volunteers to actually work the event because the dozen or so key people that are producing Dark Skies right now cannot do this in such a remote setting. We need MORE PEOPLE. WE NEED YOU. Delamar is no panacea, and we will still be in cost recovery with the BLM on that site as well so our costs will actually go UP in moving to Delamar and that will add to the already increasing ticket prices that we/you will be experiencing in order to pay for cost recovery in the first place. So yea, Delamar Lake rocks, but IMHO we are not ready for it right now. And I will be consulting with our local BLM offices (who are actually helping us now) in this regards in detail in the coming weeks. The last thing we want to do is go out to Delamar and have something bad happen that we're not ready for and then the whole event gets yanked, when we could have stayed at Roach Lake for another year or two and refine this operation further and get more pro in doing this.
Consider for a moment that Burning Man has been at this for 15 years, we are in our third year.
We're going to lose Roach Lake to the new airport in a few years either way. My thoughts are that we should continue to hone our skills on Roach and then move up to Delamar for good. but my guts tell me that we're not ready for that level of responsibility, yet.
The bottom line is and has been that no one else except BM is doing this and that now that we are 'on the radar' with the BLM we have to do things a certain way. 100% by the book. We're learning, they are learning, and you are learning. Welcome to doing it. With your help and support we are on our way to becoming one of the premiere fire events in the world. We can do it, and we will do it. These are merely growing pains. Thank you for being patient and listening. And THANK YOU again for coming last weekend! In spite of the fire ban we still had an awesome event and everyone from the staff to all of the participants should be very VERY proud that we had no major incidents or citations issued. It just gets better. -
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Re: No Fire
Sun, May 27, 2007 - 4:01 PMThank you Cameron.
It seems to me that you had problems securing permits for fire spinning permits last time and that Tedward was pivotal in working it out. This time there was no mention of problems and then of course, we had the resulting ban.
Why do you think that there will be any change for 2008. It seems to me that this fire department is incorrigible. -
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Re: No Fire
Sun, May 27, 2007 - 6:21 PMOh, dude, don't make me feel any more guilty than I already do. I had a last minute financial emergency that prevented me from attending, and thn I hear about THIS. {shudder} In 2008, I won't quit until I have the permit in hand, notarized and irrevocable (as possible). -
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Re: No Fire
Sun, May 27, 2007 - 7:22 PMI wondered where you were. You were missed. -
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Re: No Fire
Sun, May 27, 2007 - 11:16 PMAnything, but dude. All is cool though Tedward.
I'm only repeating the accolades that have been passed down. -
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Re: No Fire
Mon, May 28, 2007 - 12:41 AMWell the difference between 2007 and 2008 is that I (now) have a good vehicle (thanks Maria!). So, I'll be able to get out to LV more often and really nail this whole fire performance permit down. here's hoping I can actually make a difference...
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Re: No Fire
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 11:21 PMJust to get the name right: Google maps says "Delamar"
But that's not to say Google is right.
Does anyone know if it's "Delmar" or "Delamar"?
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